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 locked  Author  Topic: Raspbian Stretch released  (Read 1400 times)
hitsware
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #15 on: Aug 25th, 2017, 6:22pm »

But how about Brandy ?
And the RISCOS version ?
Did " your " BBCBasic come after ?
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Richard Russell
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #16 on: Aug 25th, 2017, 8:47pm »

on Aug 25th, 2017, 6:22pm, hitsware wrote:
But how about Brandy ?
And the RISCOS version ?
Did " your " BBCBasic come after ?

Is this what you wanted (these dates are approximate, corrections would be welcome)?

6502 BBC BASIC (Sophie Wilson): 1981
BBC BASIC (Z80) (Richard Russell): 1982
ARM BASIC V (Sophie Wilson): 1984
BBC BASIC (86) (Richard Russell): 1986
BBC BASIC for Windows (Richard Russell): 2001
Brandy BASIC (Dave Daniels): 2003
BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 (Richard Russell): 2015

There are some less well known versions from other authors.

Richard.
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #17 on: Aug 25th, 2017, 9:13pm »

> Is this what you wanted

.......... grin

You should ( or maybe someone has ? )
write a book about the life and times of
BBCBasic .......
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #18 on: Aug 26th, 2017, 10:24am »

on Aug 25th, 2017, 9:13pm, hitsware wrote:
You should ( or maybe someone has ? ) write a book about the life and times of BBCBasic

I'm not aware of a book, but there's this magazine article from several years ago.

Richard.
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #19 on: Aug 26th, 2017, 5:03pm »

The apparent slowness of Raspbian Stretch isn't limited to BBC BASIC, or even to SDL, because the standard 'glxgears' 3D demo program is reporting dramatically different speeds here.  If I enter this command at a terminal prompt:

Code:
glxgears -info 

it reports around 180 frames-per-second on Raspbian Jessie but only around 45 fps on Stretch, that's a 4:1 reduction (in both cases with the 'experimental' GL Driver disabled).  Something's definitely not right so I've reported it at the Raspberry Pi forum; it will be interesting to see what they say.

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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #20 on: Aug 26th, 2017, 8:28pm »

on Aug 26th, 2017, 5:03pm, Richard Russell wrote:
I've reported it at the Raspberry Pi forum; it will be interesting to see what they say.

The initial reaction there is that it might be specific to my RPi hardware. I'm doubtful of that, so can I ask everybody with a Raspberry Pi to please check as follows:
  • Disable (if necessary) the experimental GL Driver and reboot.

  • At a command prompt enter glxgears -info

  • Wait for the FPS value to stabilise
Please post here what frames-per-second it reports, what colours the gears are, and your machine details (RPi model, version of Raspbian etc.)

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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #21 on: Aug 28th, 2017, 2:14pm »

I get:

command not found

Stretch has obvious problems.
GL or not I get black flashes when switching
windows and it is not responsive.
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #22 on: Aug 28th, 2017, 2:34pm »

on Aug 28th, 2017, 2:14pm, hitsware wrote:
I get: command not found

In what context? What 'command' is not found?

Quote:
Stretch has obvious problems.

Indeed. Hopefully now I've raised the issue at the Raspberry Pi forum they will devote some effort to fixing the problems with Stretch, although there seems to be little urgency as yet.

You should be OK with the VC4 GL Driver enabled however. Yes there is the occasional, very brief, screen 'flash' (the same thing happens in Jessie) but otherwise it seems to be stable and it is certainly fast. You really cannot complain about the speed of BBCSDL now I've addressed the specific issues you raised of 'insert line' and 'delete line' which I admit were slow in v0.18a.

This YouTube video, which at the end shows four copies of BBCSDL running simultaneously on a Raspberry Pi, demonstrates beyond doubt that it's not slow!



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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #23 on: Aug 28th, 2017, 3:25pm »

pi@raspberrypi:~$ glxgears -info
bash: glxgears: command not found
pi@raspberrypi:~$


The Raspberry people know Stretch is not ironed out.
Their modus operandi is to be on the edge.
It was only about the time of the advent of Pixel,
that Jessie became quite well mannered.
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #24 on: Aug 28th, 2017, 3:51pm »

on Aug 28th, 2017, 3:25pm, hitsware wrote:
bash: glxgears: command not found

So maybe you forgot:

Code:
sudo apt-get install mesa-utils 

although it is in the BBC BASIC installation instructions.

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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #25 on: Aug 28th, 2017, 3:56pm »

OK Right .....
I don't have BBCSDL on this SD
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #26 on: Sep 4th, 2017, 5:03pm »

An 'official' response, of sorts, here but personally I don't think it's very satisfactory because even if "the change of behaviour comes from upstream Debian packages" if it affects only the armhf build and not (x86) Debian stable shouldn't the Raspberry Pi people accept some responsibility?

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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #27 on: Sep 6th, 2017, 5:31pm »

Have you tried " vc4 fkms " ( whatever that is ) ?

You may be expecting ' professional ' results
from a ' hobbiest ' platform .
Besides which the essence of Linux is an undoneness,
left up to the user to resolve.
No Bill Gates sheparding our cyber-efforts smiley
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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #28 on: Sep 6th, 2017, 7:50pm »

on Sep 6th, 2017, 5:31pm, hitsware wrote:
Have you tried "vc4 fkms"

The BBCSDL installation instructions for the Raspberry Pi specifically tell you to enable that driver (the 'experimental' GL Driver)! I - and I think most other people - consider the performance of BBC BASIC to be quite acceptable with it enabled. You alone seem to feel it's still too unresponsive (I assume that you've updated your copy to 0.18b in which I have addressed your concerns about the 'delete line' and 'insert line' operations).

Quote:
You may be expecting ' professional ' results from a ' hobbiest ' platform .

All I am "expecting" is that Stretch should give as good results, or nearly so, as Jessie (rather than a fourfold slowdown when using the Mesa software driver). Do you think that is unreasonable?

I'm not sure that you fully grasp the issues surrounding the Raspberry Pi and the Mesa software driver. I would suggest that, if you have not already done so, you read the relevant threads at the SDL forum and at the Raspberry Pi forum to get a better understanding.

Richard.
« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2017, 8:30pm by Richard Russell » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Raspbian Stretch released
« Reply #29 on: Sep 6th, 2017, 10:06pm »

> specifically tell you

I am not using Stretch. Nothing to do with Basic or SDL.
( though I'm sure they are affected )
I've gone to Jessie Lite.
Stretch needs alot of work to run as smooth.
My main purpose is music and sound and the Stretch
version of Sonic-Pi (my latest fave) is as messed up
as the rest. (Part of that is a graphics problem so ??)

edit:
I looked at the threads you linked to.
For now perhaps you should reccomend Jessie to BBCSDL users ?
« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2017, 10:29pm by hitsware » User IP Logged

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